45 replies to this topic

[Andan]

At least when I am piloting a Balistic/Energy mech I have to position myself even for the slightest amount of time in danger to do damage.

LRMs should not be as effective as ballistic/energy weapons. You can essentially do max damage behind cover.

I dont disagree that blanace is lacking in the ballistic/energy department, but I dont think buffing LRMs was the solution. PGI has effectively made anything without AMS/ECM a pain to pilot, and making brawling a thing of myth and legend. I'm either playing an LRM or a poptart now.

If they keep the changes in place for LRMs I would love to see AMS changed from a Hardpoint item to a 2 slot component I can equip on any of my mechs. Why doesn't my Jager ( a anti air mech by design have any anti-missle system)

[Eldan Sontim]

Jager no anti missile......What?!

check the left torso for an AMS slot and chuck one in.

[Sandpit]

Dude, you couldn't have posted this in one of the other 14 threads on the front page already there directly related to LRMs....?

[SirLANsalot]

Going to point out here, like in so many other threads, LRM's deal BLANKET damage across your ENTIRE mech. They are as Anti pinpoint as possible, and even then people whine about them.

For reference, an LRM20, deals 22 damage, 2 more then an AC20, but the AC20 can place its damage into a single location....LRM's cannot.

[Sandpit]

oh and it's amazing how 1000 damage in a match using anything but LRMs results in "Good match dude!"
1000 damage with LRMs results in "LRMs are "op"!"

[Emdee]

I don't see a match where 7 mechs on one side fire simultaneous AC20s all over your mech from behind cover. Also the AC20 velocity and damage requires the following:

a) That you can successfully conceal your position long enough to get into ~300m range.
b. That you can time the shell to hit a moving target, who will not be standing still 90% of the time
c) That you can compensate for international lag (hello from Australia... 250-350ms)
d) That you can deal with incoming LRM/AC/PPC cockpit shake
e) That you can generally only fit 20-30 AC20 shells on your mech, as opposed to ~2000 missiles on a boat.
f) An AC20 shot is based on skill and can miss. A LRM doesn't unless terrain comes into play.

Your argument for the player getting 1000 damage and being commented on with and without LRM spam:

With LRM spam:
a) Locks a target
b.) Clicks "fire" until it dies
c) Repeats

Without LRM spam:
a) Uses terrain, tactics and co-ordination (or luck) to apply damage to targets while mitigating his/her incoming damage
b.) Is rewarded by people who are watching them in spectate and admiring their individual skill.

Smart play and skill should determine a battle outcome, not easy mode play.

Edited by Emdee, 22 March 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[No Guts No Glory]

You do realize that LRM boats also use terrain, tactics and co-ordinations to damage targets, right brah?

You do realize LRMs miss or their damage is mitigated if your target isn't a complete dolt right?

Yeah, LRMs are fine. They punish bad play, and are countered by smart play and skill. Not seeing the problem.

[Ace Selin]

LRM boats tactics are sit 500-700m away from enemy, behind rest of your team for cover, get spotter to single out enemies and fire without any chance of getting shot in return and kill with impunity - that's a tactic I guess.

[No Guts No Glory]

Underhive problems.

[FupDup]

No Guts No Glory, on 22 March 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

Underhive problems.

[Mystere]

Ace Selin, on 22 March 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

LRM boats tactics are sit 500-700m away from enemy, behind rest of your team for cover, get spotter to single out enemies and fire without any chance of getting shot in return and kill with impunity - that's a tactic I guess.

And no rearguard. Yummy!


<maniacal >

Edited by Mystere, 22 March 2014 - 07:28 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

FYI, only one mech has no AMS, and it's a Hero: the Cicada X5.

[Davers]

Sandpit, on 22 March 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Dude, you couldn't have posted this in one of the other 14 threads on the front page already there directly related to LRMs....?

Be nice, it's only his 5th post.

Emdee, on 22 March 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

I don't see a match where 7 mechs on one side fire simultaneous AC20s all over your mech from behind cover. Also the AC20 velocity and damage requires the following:

a) That you can successfully conceal your position long enough to get into ~300m range.
b. That you can time the shell to hit a moving target, who will not be standing still 90% of the time
c) That you can compensate for international lag (hello from Australia... 250-350ms)
d) That you can deal with incoming LRM/AC/PPC cockpit shake
e) That you can generally only fit 20-30 AC20 shells on your mech, as opposed to ~2000 missiles on a boat.
f) An AC20 shot is based on skill and can miss. A LRM doesn't unless terrain comes into play.

Your argument for the player getting 1000 damage and being commented on with and without LRM spam:

With LRM spam:
a) Locks a target
b.) Clicks "fire" until it dies
c) Repeats

Without LRM spam:
a) Uses terrain, tactics and co-ordination (or luck) to apply damage to targets while mitigating his/her incoming damage
b.) Is rewarded by people who are watching them in spectate and admiring their individual skill.

Smart play and skill should determine a battle outcome, not easy mode play.

You are totally right. AC/20s are just impossible to use! Thats why they are in every match...

Please don't claim that any weapon in this game is hard to use.

[El Bandito]

Andan, on 22 March 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

I'm either playing an LRM or a poptart now.

A game with either LRM boat or poptarts is better than just poptarts, wouldn't you say? By that definition, the game is improving.

Now if only PGI can become competent enough to buff SRMs...

Edited by El Bandito, 22 March 2014 - 08:05 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

Ace Selin, on 22 March 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

LRM boats tactics are sit 500-700m away from enemy, behind rest of your team for cover, get spotter to single out enemies and fire without any chance of getting shot in return and kill with impunity - that's a tactic I guess.

Yes, it is a tactic, and a rather valid one. There are also tactics that you, together with your team, can employ to counter it. You can send fast lights and mediums to flank the LRM boats and attack them in close range. You can kill the spotting unit. You can send a fast light out to find the LRM boat and spot for your LRM boat. You can maneuver your team so that they have cover. Take a dependable positions and lead the enemy team into areas were they will not have support from LRM boats. You can maneuver though cover direct fire support mechs and force the LRM boat into moving. You can harass an LRM boat with fast moving light and medium snipers. You can mount AMS on your mech.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 22 March 2014 - 08:18 PM.

[Mystere]

Dirus Nigh, on 22 March 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

Yes, it is a tactic, and a rather valid one. There are also tactics that you, together with your team, can employ to counter it. You can send fast lights and mediums to flank the LRM boats and attack them in close range. You can kill the spotting unit. You can send a fast light out to find the LRM boat and spot for your LRM boat. You can maneuver your team so that they have cover. Take a dependable positions and lead the enemy team into areas were they will not have support from LRM boats. You can maneuver though cover direct fire support mechs and force the LRM boat into moving. You can harass an LRM boat with fast moving light and medium snipers. You can mount AMS on your mech.

But that requires too much work and thinking. People just want to blow stuff up!

[Ace Selin]

Dirus Nigh...The problem trying to flank LRM boats (you obviously don't pilot lights) is if spotted early the light is dead, covering ground to get to said boat, if spotted when you get to the LRM boat (you will), the light is dead by the other LRM boat(s). So killing yourself to get to the boats isn't really a well thought out tactic, please try again. Same applies to medium mechs, they get annihilated by in seconds to LRM boats. Youd be lucky to kill a single typical LRM (Cat, Stalker) boat with an Atlas standing next to it, before the Atlas was killed by the LRM rain from one or more other boats.

Edited by Ace Selin, 22 March 2014 - 10:26 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

Ace Selin, on 22 March 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

Dirus Nigh...The problem trying to flank LRM boats (you obviously don't pilot lights) is if spotted early the light is dead, covering ground to get to said boat, if spotted when you get to the LRM boat (you will), the light is dead by the other LRM boat(s). So killing yourself to get to the boats isn't really a well thought out tactic, please try again. Same applies to medium mechs, they get annihilated by in seconds to LRM boats. Youd be lucky to kill a single typical LRM (Cat, Stalker) boat with an Atlas standing next to it, before the Atlas was killed by the LRM rain from one or more other boats.

I must have been doing it wrong when I was killing LRM boats in my jenner, and narcing them in my locust.

[Ultimax]

SirLANsalot, on 22 March 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Going to point out here, like in so many other threads, LRM's deal BLANKET damage across your ENTIRE mech. They are as Anti pinpoint as possible, and even then people whine about them.

For reference, an LRM20, deals 22 damage, 2 more then an AC20, but the AC20 can place its damage into a single location....LRM's cannot.

I went into the testing grounds and tested this, and at 500m every target dummy's (front) CT was destroyed before any other component.

There was some splash damage, but in general it straight up cored the CT on 9/10 targets.

I think it has to do with the speed cutting down on the spread within a certain range parameter.

Also, you can't fire an AC 20 from a slow Assault mech from behind a giant rock while a light running 100-150kph locks targets for you - and the AC 20's "20" damage is 270m. Add horizontal, as well as vertical lead due to how AC 20 shells tend to drop en route for longer ranges.

The damage they deal shouldn't be remotely comparable, ever.

Nor can your AC 20 force the opposing players entire screen into pure seizure fits the way you can when you chainfire LRMs into them.



I'm a new player, and even I can tell that quite a few LRM proponents are clearly cherry picking their arguing points and ignoring reality when it doesn't suit their agenda.



A lot of other things could allow the current implementation to not feel so lopsided due to the nature of the MM.

Chiefly, more cover that actually works, some alert to know you've been tagged/narc'd, objectives that require more than a deathball, etc. I have my doubts any of those things would be implemented "soon".

Edited by Ultimatum X, 23 March 2014 - 08:29 PM.

[Bobzilla]

LRM's need a los from someone, meaning you can shoot the spotter. People make it sound like you can just move within 1000m and fire away, it doesn't work like that. At some point, in order to fire LRM's, you have to give an opportunity for the other team to fire. Mechs being separated from their team, running in with a blob of eneimes, is very risky, sure the lrm boat can stay safe, but with no spotter it can't hide. Yes narc now mitigates this risk somewhat, but 9 out of 10 times i'd rather be hit with a narc than a srm6 (assuming srms actually hit). And being behind cover fireing blindly lowers the lrm's accuracy as they can't see what's in the way.

Stop saying there is no risk in hiding and using indirect fire, there is a risk and it's extremely inaccurate.

PS: LRMs can be used on both teams, so think of your support softening up targets for you to kill with ballistics/energy weapons making things acctually easier for you.

Edited by Bobzilla, 24 March 2014 - 05:13 AM.